God's Plans for Creation
God's plans for the physical universe are not yet known. But I belive that one day we will all be perfect or close to it. No more war and will live in a harmonious world, where people will work together for one goal, true perfection.
This being said, there is no one who knows true perfection but God and we can only aim for peace and total harmony between each other and the rest of the world and one day our world will be amazing and almost perfect.
This is God destiny for us and one day we will as a planet achieve it.
This post was edited on: 2011-02-27 at 06:09 PM by: Jacquie Curtis (Moderator)
13 Replies
This is a really intense question! God says in the Bible that creation will be destroyed (2 Pet. 3:10), set free (Rom. 8:21), and ultimately become new (Rev. 2:11). This reminds me of what happens to a person when they become a Christian: "Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come." (2 Cor. 5:17) As Christians, the old part of us is "dead," but we are working every day to build up the new part of us, the Christ-like part of us. I believe that this is also God's plan for creation; God will use us to build up and redeem creation.
Heavy duty answer Kirsten! How does that relate to what science says about the end of the universe?
Think about an asteroid striking our planet or the big crunch at the end of the universe's expansion. How does these relate to your biblical ideas?
The science part is so much harder for me! Honestly, I don't know what science says about the end of the earth, other than the end of the earth is definitely coming. Can anyone help me out with this?
I think what astronomers predict is that the sun will expand and eventually burn up all of the Earth's atmosphere, and if it doesn't swallow us up due to the Sun's weaking gravitational pull allowing the Earth to orbit at a wider radius, it will turn our planet into something similar to what Venus is now (entirely uninhabitable).
As far as how this jives with Scripture... I'm not entirely sure. I know that the Lord's plan does transcend physical reality, but considering the majority of the Church's understanding of the end of the world comes from the heavily symbolic book of Revelation, it is difficult to understand what is meant to be taken literally and what is meant to be taken figuratively. I personally think it would be awesome to see four giant horsemen galloping through the clouds, and if that happens, I'm going to be so pumped. But it also might be entirely figurative with a complex spiritual message, much like the rest of the book of Revelation.
I'm not trying to cop out here, but it is much much easier to understand Scripture's interaction with what has already happened, than try to understand its interaction with the endless number of things that *could* happen in the future.
In conclusion, we should ask a theologian. Matt?
My belief on this is linked to my previous post:. I believe God created a world that has the potential to continue to create beauty on its own and that the beauty found every day is not solely influenced by him directly. I still believe that God creates days and situations that are beautiful to a range of individuals but every situation that occurs today is not directly created by Him today. Furthermore, the beauty that is found in society is partially a product of God’s creation of the human mind but credit is also due to society. People are capable of creating beautiful acts of kindness that are touching and make the word a pleasant place. That being said society and individuals also have to potential to make the world seem less than desirable. God has presented us with an environment that will continue to display beauty on its own and since we are a part of God’s creation the onus is on us now to continue to make the world a beautiful place. Meanwhile He is still present to guide us in doing so.
I feel that God does not have final plans for the physical universe. Instead I think he has provided us with everything we need to succeed and we can create of it what we will. We have caused obvious destruction to our environment which we justify a number of ways (ex. Oil sands) but that destruction is on us. God has provided us with the tools to succeed and our neglect to respond appropriately does not suggest something about His intent.
It is somewhat similar to raising a child. As a parent you provide your children with everything you can to ensure their success but when it comes time to your child moving out of the house their actions may reflect what you have taught or provided to them but ultimately their actions will shape their life.
Hmmm this seems to becoming the hardest question of the bunch. For good reason. I’m not sure despite humanities progress, potential progress nor the abilities we have been given if we will every be able to avoid or escape the eventual destruction of the universe. (whether through implosion or eventual expansion and deep freeze) Not to mention the relatively sooner destruction of earth by our expanding sun. I really do hope does have a plan.
It’s a bit tuff because as stated above as Jesus followers we believe there is a spiritual aspect beyond the physical, yet we are very much connected to the physical part of things. We do know though scripture that God intervenes in history (miracles both in the old and new testament), he has intention of restoring the fallen spiritual parts of his followers (Phillipians 1:6 he who began a good work in you will be faithful and true to complete it at the day of Jesus Christ), and God has the power to create and by extension re-create. Weather through divine intervention, existence simply on a spiritual level, or creation of a new physical universe (this makes most sense to me) God seems to have a plan for his people and is in complete control of it.
Alaina,
I loved your comment of how God has provided us with the tools for success just as parents try to do the same for their children. I agree that the choices we make determine whether we are successfull. Although we may have been taught right from wrong our society influences us to make certain decisions that we otherwise might not.
kirsten-h wrote:
The science part is so much harder for me! Honestly, I don't know what science says about the end of the earth, other than the end of the earth is definitely coming. Can anyone help me out with this?
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The flaw in science is that there isn't an agreed time or way that the earth will come to its end. It is an unknown thing. There is talk that all ressources will be used and will run out, making it impossible for the people of our time to survive, not knowing how to live without all of our technicological advances. Some say that life will become so scientific the human race will be wiped out or morphed into some highly intellectual, robot-esque being. It is very unclear and there is no common ground. Similar with religion, the end of the earth is unknown, but we can look throughout the bible and read of the signs that will show us that the end is coming. Also, with religion, the end of the earth is less about destruction and more about the coming of Christ.
frocklag wrote:
I feel that God does not have final plans for the physical universe. Instead I think he has provided us with everything we need to succeed and we can create of it what we will. We have caused obvious destruction to our environment which we justify a number of ways (ex. Oil sands) but that destruction is on us. God has provided us with the tools to succeed and our neglect to respond appropriately does not suggest something about His intent.
It is somewhat similar to raising a child. As a parent you provide your children with everything you can to ensure their success but when it comes time to your child moving out of the house their actions may reflect what you have taught or provided to them but ultimately their actions will shape their life.
I like this idea Alaina! It reminds me of Genesis 1 and 2 that say we are the stewards or care takers of God's creation! I agree completely with what you are saying here. We have been given a great gift by God and it is up to us to use it appropriately.
I don't understand why God wouldn't have a plan for the physical end of the universe. Especially when the Bible and the Catholic Church tell us differently. Can you elaborate on this Alaina?
This is a very interesting conversation and I agree with a lot of you that Alaina's ideas are attractive.
In my own opinion I don't really care. I qualify that by quoting "Mark 13:32 (New International Version,©2010)
The Day and Hour Unknown
32 “But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father."
Science only has theories about the innumerable ways the world will end. Religion has no answers either on this one. Many interpretation and theories exist and people use the Book of Revelations at times to figure out such things.
But after looking at Mark it seems to me that Jesus is telling us that our concern about the end of the world is pointless. Worrying about the future takes us out of the present, and from what I have learned about living as a Christian, it is preciously our ability to live COMPLETELY in the the present moment that we can live in full communion with God. And God biggest hope for us is that we love God with all our hearts and love our neighbours as we love ourselves. If we are ever able to figure out what this means and live in it then we are creating Heaven on earth.
mhoven wrote:
God's plans for the physical universe are not yet known. But I belive that one day we will all be perfect or close to it. No more war and will live in a harmonious world, where people will work together for one goal, true perfection.
This being said, there is no one who knows true perfection but God and we can only aim for peace and total harmony between each other and the rest of the world and one day our world will be amazing and almost perfect.
This is God destiny for us and one day we will as a planet achieve it.
This post was edited on: 2011-02-27 at 06:09 PM by: Jacquie Curtis (Moderator)
I do not believe in divine-predestination. A priest told me that the Council of Trent deemed pre-destination a heresy, www.advent.org for definitions etc. Long story short, If we are all predestined for this perfect world then our free will is actually taken away from us because it doesn't actually matter what we do because we will all end up in a perfect world one day.
I agree with Alaina 100%, I believe that although God did create us in his image he does not directly interfere with our lives. That is not to say that God is not involved in our lives, for a part of him is in every one of his creations. Like Alaina stated, God has provided us with what we need in life and what we do with that which God gave us is ultimately our decision. We are, after all, in charge of our own destiny.
Hey Daniel I’m interested on your last post. I think that Jacquie’s comments reflect the idea of universalism more than Divine-Predestination. Divine –Predestination has more to do with the idea that God through his sovereignty chooses who will be saved and those who will not (basically, free will of humanity when it comes to salvation is ignored). Where as universalist believe that ALL will be made new and brought into perfection. (all are saved despite religious association, faith, ect.) Subtle I know but I think important. (however making a distinction between these theologies does not bring us any closer to answering the original question)
Jacquie i think i partly agree with you. Scripture does seem to imply that we are moving towards a time where Christ will completely sanctify us (see Isaiah Denial and Revelations) and bring us into perfection (heaven maybe?), whatever perfection means Where i differ is how we come to that point. Scripture also seems to imply that sin will ultimately be dealt with and destroyed along with those who would hold on to it. (i.e. we are stuck in sin and we can accept the free help offered through Christ’s death, a perfect sacrifice, or we can hold on to our sin and independence and watch it destroy us). That being said i have some very close friends who love Jesus dearly and are universalists. So your with some good company. As for how this plays out with our understanding of the end of the universe, (ie Most scientific theory’s show the universe will destroy itself or become unable to support life at some point in the future) it still does not address this problem.
How do we deal with the fact that scripture implies that (at least part of us) are eternal yet the physical universe seems to have an expiry date?
Kirsten Horton
Feb 14, 2011 at 1:47 PM