Why care about origins?
Have you personally encountered the debate between creationists and evolutionists? Why do you think people care so much about it?
18 Replies
I have personally have been in informal debates between creationists and evolutionists. I think a lot of the debate comes from the fact that many evolutionists believe that creationists are being willfully ignorant of what is considered scientific truth. This truth has physical facts like how our DNA is similar to apes and ancient human skeletons have been found with similarity to ape skeletons. On the other side creationists are so confident in their literal translation of the Bible they refuse to see otherwise.
I believe a lot of the debate has underlying issues. One issue of course is education. There are many Christian schools in the United States that they undermine evolution by teaching students that it is only a theory that has no real merit. They instead teach pseudosciences such as Creation Science. This deprives many students from receiving a strong biological science education and does not prepare them if they decide to go to a college or university and go for a science degree.
One of the big reasons people can get so attached to the origins debate is the consequences origins have for their faith. Some people try to prove atheism through evolution; others try to prove Christianity through six-day creation. I don't see a problem with believing in evolution or six-day creation or any of the other options, but I don't think it's wise to base your religious views entirely on the origins debate. I'll be a Christian whether or not evolution is the truth.
Unfortunately, I think everyone has encountered the debate between creationists and evolutionists through popular media today and that is why so many people are caught up in the false understanding that science and religion cannot be compatible with one another.
I think people care about this debate between evolution and creation because it has great implications on the way they live their lives. For example, when I first started my university career as Christian student it was difficult to justify going into science thinking that I’d eventually have to make a tough decision as to which I believed in and wanted to fully invest my life in – science or religion. Until this “debate” is no longer seen as one, this “either/or” thinking will greatly impact the decisions Christians and Non-Christians alike make, especially when it comes to school and career related choices.
Luke, you raise the point about education. You speak about the American situation, but what about your situation in Alberta?
Do teachers in the province handle the topic appropriately? Are they nervous about touching religious themes in science class? Should they be? What do you think?
I tried to find articles to give me more insight in the situation in Alberta, however I have come up empty handed. So I will try my best to answer your questions from the experiences I had learning in Catholic schools.
I believe teachers handle the topic appropriately. I think science teachers can be rightfully nervous when touching religious themes. It is a very touchy subject for some people and a teacher must be careful about what they might say. From my experience they did not touch on religious issues in science class ever. Science class was reserved solely for talking about the facts of science. However the topic of religion and science was often discussed in the religious education classes. I think that is a much more appropriate setting for the debate as religion classes are often used to help students understand their faith better and understand how it fits into the modern world.
Well put Kirsten.
When I was in high school, the situation arose many times when English/Science teachers were not able to answer religious questions, and therefore simply said, "Uh... ask your religion teacher." I think that this sheds a negative light on religion as a whole, because it paints a picture of religion simply being for a select group, and that it has no application to practical everyday life. The other teachers' lack of understanding displayed a lack of initiative taken, and therefore a lack of interest. An interest in Catholicism has to extend throughout the Catholic schools, and not just in the religious departments.
I agree with you Jesse that if you are in a Catholic setting then all teachers should be able to answer the questions the students have; however, if a teacher truly had no idea to a question wouldn't you sooner them turn the student away then make up some nonsense so that they look like they know the answer. Then the student might be misinformed and what good would that do. Teachers need to work together to answer the students questions the best they can.
Crowley wrote:
Well put Kirsten.
When I was in high school, the situation arose many times when English/Science teachers were not able to answer religious questions, and therefore simply said, "Uh... ask your religion teacher." I think that this sheds a negative light on religion as a whole, because it paints a picture of religion simply being for a select group, and that it has no application to practical everyday life. The other teachers' lack of understanding displayed a lack of initiative taken, and therefore a lack of interest. An interest in Catholicism has to extend throughout the Catholic schools, and not just in the religious departments.
*stands up, starts slow clap*
In the immortal word of Pierre McGuire: "This guy gets it".
If one is teaching within the context of a Catholic or other denominational Christian School the teacher shouldn't shrug off those questions. It is such a crock of feldercarb. Do they have to know all the answers? No. Acknowledging that students have a question that you as a teacher might not understand doesn't have to be a bad thing. Perhaps you could bring in a speaker to the class where their is overlap?
Don't stunt the intellectual and even spiritual growth of your students. Heck, you might even learn something when discussing these issues too.
Yes I totally agree with you! It was disheartening during my APT because it was fairly evident which teachers were more religious than others. And looking back now, I could probably pick out which teachers would turn their students away when asked about religion in their class and which teachers wouldn't. I think that if teachers are teaching in a Catholic or any religious school than they should feel comfortable helping their students find direction in life. After all, that is our main job as teachers is it not? Yes, it is important to help our students be successful in life. We can do this by being willing to answer those questions that may be causing inner conflicts.
When I was in High School I was heavily involved in debates of religion, and creation vs. evolution. I staunchly defended the young earth creationists in response to my athiest friends. As far as I was concerned, if the creation account did not meet modern literal and scientific standards of my time, then how could I believe anything that I read in the rest of scripture?
I believe this is a view held by most Christians in relation to this debate. They uphold the Bible as literally inerrant and will defend this perspective to the death.
The debate has been against science because, since the enlightenment, humanity has come to understand itself in reference to scientific principles and the scientific view of facts as truth has come to govern our understandings of the world and of ourselves. The idea of a universal truth has become key to the debate.
mcampbell wrote:
Crowley wrote:
Well put Kirsten.
When I was in high school, the situation arose many times when English/Science teachers were not able to answer religious questions, and therefore simply said, "Uh... ask your religion teacher." I think that this sheds a negative light on religion as a whole, because it paints a picture of religion simply being for a select group, and that it has no application to practical everyday life. The other teachers' lack of understanding displayed a lack of initiative taken, and therefore a lack of interest. An interest in Catholicism has to extend throughout the Catholic schools, and not just in the religious departments.
*stands up, starts slow clap*
In the immortal word of Pierre McGuire: "This guy gets it".
If one is teaching within the context of a Catholic or other denominational Christian School the teacher shouldn't shrug off those questions. It is such a crock of feldercarb. Do they have to know all the answers? No. Acknowledging that students have a question that you as a teacher might not understand doesn't have to be a bad thing. Perhaps you could bring in a speaker to the class where their is overlap?
Don't stunt the intellectual and even spiritual growth of your students. Heck, you might even learn something when discussing these issues too.
You couldn't have put it better then when you said that teachers don't have to know all the answers. Teachers are human beings and can't have all the answers. Admitting to not having all the answers and using this as a launching point for further learning is an excellent thing in the classroom, in my opinion. If a teacher can admit to their students their lack of knowledge, the opporunity can be used by both teachers and students to grow intellectually and as people in a community of learning.
I agree B-Stone. There's nothing wrong with not knowing an answer, but as teachers, it is important that we don't leave it at that. When a situation arises when we are unable to give a student an answer, we must try to find an answer. But what I think is almost more important is to *show an interest* in trying to find that answer to the question. This is what shows the students that what they're being taught is worth learning.
Hey Brenna
I rather enjoyed your response but I’m curious to hear more on what you mentioned in the last part? “The idea of a universal truth has become key to the debate.” Is science universal truth? Are the spiritual truths in scripture? Neither? Both? Can they work in harmony towards truth? If Christ is truth as the bible says, when we research, and learn and discover scientific truth (learn about our natural environment) does that truth also point us towards Christ? I know these are important questions for the people i talk to about the subject and i think important to all of us. Especially in a post modern society where peoples authority to say what is absolute truth is questioned. ( as it probably should be) Your response has given me a lot to think about 
This post was edited on: 2011-03-01 at 02:42 PM by: Stephen Eidick
lsekulic wrote:
I have personally have been in informal debates between creationists and evolutionists. I think a lot of the debate comes from the fact that many evolutionists believe that creationists are being willfully ignorant of what is considered scientific truth. This truth has physical facts like how our DNA is similar to apes and ancient human skeletons have been found with similarity to ape skeletons. On the other side creationists are so confident in their literal translation of the Bible they refuse to see otherwise.
I believe a lot of the debate has underlying issues. One issue of course is education. There are many Christian schools in the United States that they undermine evolution by teaching students that it is only a theory that has no real merit. They instead teach pseudosciences such as Creation Science. This deprives many students from receiving a strong biological science education and does not prepare them if they decide to go to a college or university and go for a science degree.
Luke, you bring up a really good point here about the Science Vs. Religion debate. You highlight an important aspect of the issue. It is the belief that is it a black and white topic, a yin vs. yang, a pick one or the other kind of issue.
Interestingly enough I have recently read a book on the science vs. evolution debate. The book is called "I love Jesus & I accept evolution" - by Dennis O. Lamoureaux.
I learned a couple things from the book I want to share. I learned about the five basic theories regarding evolution and creation. The five theories provide a spectrum of beliefs regarding how science and creation feel about each other.
For example, a Young Earth Creationist will believe in a literal reading of the bible and deduce that the earth was created in 6 days. Personally, I have a hard time accepting that in the face of scientific facts.
In the middle of the spectrum there is the Evolutionary Theory. The theory finds that both science and religion can not only co-exist but can mutually benefit each other, in that a person can use both views to enhance the beliefs of the other. This one is my favourite because I can use science to help understand the world more and be in awe of the creator, who created it and the creation, us. I can also use religion to understand the things that science cannot explain, like the meaning of life, and enjoy those types of mysteries.
There are three other theories as well but the point I am trying make it that it is not the either/or debate we have learned it to be. It is more complex than that.
In fact, Lamoureux points out like you do that education is partially the problem for this misunderstanding of the science vs. creation debate. The terms we use to define evolution often get confused with atheism and so people just assume they mean the same thing. But as the book points out they are not the same thing.
Luke, you bring up that educators in America are teaching only one perspective and that is fuelling this problem in many ways.
I think our educators should be giving us learners the freedom to learn about the many theories that exist about the issue and then let us make our own choices rather than telling us what to believe.
lsekulic wrote:
I tried to find articles to give me more insight in the situation in Alberta, however I have come up empty handed. So I will try my best to answer your questions from the experiences I had learning in Catholic schools.
I believe teachers handle the topic appropriately. I think science teachers can be rightfully nervous when touching religious themes. It is a very touchy subject for some people and a teacher must be careful about what they might say. From my experience they did not touch on religious issues in science class ever. Science class was reserved solely for talking about the facts of science. However the topic of religion and science was often discussed in the religious education classes. I think that is a much more appropriate setting for the debate as religion classes are often used to help students understand their faith better and understand how it fits into the modern world.
Luke,
Thanks for sharing your personal insight into how science and religious classes fit into one another. As you suggest, I like that we can talk about both science and religion in a religion class. Your comment got me thinking though.
Why can't we talk about religion in science class? Or why are we uncomfortable to?
For myself I think that science would have a hard time dealing with many of the religious topics someone could potentially bring up because science deal with facts and theories, that can be proved or disproved etc. Whereas, in religion we often deal with the intangible. We talk about the human condition and try to explain why how we came to exist in this universe, not just scientifically, but to try to understand what it "means" to exist?
Its those kinds of things, those kinds of mysteries that I don't think science will ever be able to have factual proof about and so religion helps us understand our world where science cannot.
I have personally encountered this debate inside and outside of school. While it seems that the majority of people here are discussing how teachers have negatively handled this debate I had a very positive experience in my high school science class. I didn’t go to a Catholic school so it may seem like this debate would never have arisen in class but it did and I feel like my teacher handled it very professionally while remaining open-minded. She told us that while she wasn’t religious she would go home and take the time to research the 6-day creation theory. As a teacher I feel that there are times when it is necessary to not choose a side or even share your beliefs with your students (this may differ in a Catholic school setting) but sometimes it is beneficial to show your students that you do have your own personal beliefs. While my teacher was clear that she believed in evolution and was not affiliated with any religion she took the time to go home and research the debate that a fellow student had presented. She came back the next day and discussed with us what she found and explained that she completely understood where the student was coming from and that everyone was allowed to believe what they want. I feel that she was a great example of what a teacher should do when presented with a difficult topic such as this. She didn’t brush it under the rug she took the time to expand on it even though it was not something we were learning in class. She was accepting and didn’t ignore the comment, like I feel some teachers do. Teachers should be accepting of everyone and everyone’s beliefs even if they differ.
My roommate is also an evolutionist and since I’ve been in this class I often share with her what we are learning. We were talking about the 6-day creation theory and she could not fathom the idea that people that are as educated as most of the population today would actually believe the world was created in 6 days. After reading Denis Lamoureux’s book evolution and creation were quite the hot topic in my house. I think that people tend to care a lot about this debate because religion and science are seen as polar opposites a lot of the time. It sometimes feels like we are being told to choose a side and are not being presented with the idea that religion and science can intermingle. Having certain beliefs shouldn’t mean that we are close-minded to what others believe. To me this “debate” can get out of hand and I think that everyone should just be respectful of what others belief. But that would only happen in a perfect world
Crowley wrote:
I agree B-Stone. There's nothing wrong with not knowing an answer, but as teachers, it is important that we don't leave it at that. When a situation arises when we are unable to give a student an answer, we must try to find an answer. But what I think is almost more important is to *show an interest* in trying to find that answer to the question. This is what shows the students that what they're being taught is worth learning.
I agree with this 100% Jesse! It is not always about knowing the right answer, but that teachers (no matter what subject they teach within the Catholic school setting) encourage students to relect on these subjects themselves and accompany them in this reflection.
Wow! These posts are all incredible. I agree with most of these posts. However, I think one reason why this topic is so touchy and many people care a lot about it is because they figure they have to be either on the science side or the religion side and there can be no overlap between the two. I believe without an overlap between the two you would be missing knowledge that could potentially help you determine an understanding about the origins debate, and give you a deeper meaning of faith.
Luke Sekulic
Feb 20, 2011 at 9:04 AM